ECTA Hosted Public Forum Playback (Sept 18, 2014)

ECTA Hosted Public Forum Playback (Sept 18, 2014)

ECTA Sponsored Industry Discussions Public Forum

  • Date: September 18, 2014
  • Time: 6:00 pm PT/9:00 pm ET
  • Platform: GoToMeeting Online
  • Duration: Approx 1 hr 15 min

Key Points of Discussion: E-Liquid Testing, Tobacco Harm Reduction Association of Canada (thra.ca and on Facebook), the legal battle

Audio Playback

Chat Log

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi everyone

Nicolas (to All – Entire Audience) – hi ray!

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – Good evening everyone!

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi WCV Kathy

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Hello!

Lifestyle Cig Inc. (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi everyone!

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi Simona!

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – John not prepared??  Never happens!  🙂

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi Andy

Andy Prevost (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi Ray

Andy Prevost (to All – Entire Audience) – hi ALL

KIM – ALL E-CIG SOLUTIONS (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi All

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi Kim

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – I have no mike – only chat tonite – sorry everyone.

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi Kathy!

Kevin Reed (to All – Entire Audience) – me too

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – hey matt!

Dave Ball (to All – Entire Audience) – Sorry folks sounds like I have a grandkid that needs me. Bye for
now

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – Hey Dan, find yourself some strong menthol and vape it, hope you
feel better.

[Waiting for name] (to All – Entire Audience) – hate menthol!

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – love menthol!

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – menthol is good in ice cream.. 🙂

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – Hi Kate!

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – You cannot control the Flavor manufacturers, so you will have to
test on the juice manufacturers end.

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – but why is there so much anger from other ejuice vendors about
testing?

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – Money?

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – $215 on some that have over 100+ flavors can be harsh

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – exactly, need to test, not worth the risk

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – yay Canada!

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – I’m just a small manufacturer at this point…I can’t afford all
my flavors to be tested…but I’m sending a few in for this special round, also
going to ask for another round of testing next month…

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – or do it myself…

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – good for you Matt

Nicolas (to All – Entire Audience) – What makes.more sense? to test the flavorings or to test the end
product once flavors are mixed?

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – any other manufacturers want to join in on a schedule with me?

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – How about if small vendors puchase their flavors as a group from a
single batch and have that batch tested?  Cost effective and reasonable too
pool the resources $$$$

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – That sounds like a good idea Ray

Zack Carpenter (to All – Entire Audience) – Doesnt testing need to be done of final product not just raw
flavors??

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – right true, I don’t remember why, but I think D etc can come
further down the manyfacturing line?

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – zack – right now – manufacturers are doing both. trying to gain a
better understanding of the issue

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – Thanks…I guess I find anger in this issue especially
disheartening …it is like the problem of the flavors ….preventable

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – certain flavors can react with others…it’s one thing to test TPA
custard, but if it passes, yet you mix it with butterscotch or something, it
could act differently… so it IS the final product that needs to be
tested…just pricey when you have 75+ flavors

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – If you test the flavor and nothing is found, and test the end
result and there is something, then it might be caused by the combination.  I
personally don’t know, but we need to find out the cause.

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – I thought Dr Farsalinos was also pointing out to the sweetener
also…what sweeteners ae used? Do they crystalize or change form when heated
at a certain temp?

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – so my other question is why do other vendors think that ECTA is
going to be the enforcer for testing in Canada – this is not one of ECTA’s
mandates is it?

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – only for members

[Waiting for name] (to All – Entire Audience) – for our members, yes it is

Zack Carpenter (to All – Entire Audience) – Is manufactuer porduct dating nessasary for Ejuice labels?

Rick.S (to All – Entire Audience) – So therefore, who is the enforcer of those tests?

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – all the juices I carry have a batch number and the date

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – Mine have Mfg date, and expiry

[Waiting for name] (to All – Entire Audience) – our Auditor, paul bergen reviews all tests

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – Sounds ver reasonable

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – as a consumer I like it when there’s a batch number and exp. date,
just so I know when to toss it if I’ve had it a while.

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – Is Diacetyl maturing in the end product over time?  Multiplying on
its own, or is it a fermentation process?

Rick.S (to All – Entire Audience) – Public Health has that same concern, they feel more science is
needed.

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – Rick – there is quite a bit of science on D & AP – but
regulators are not recognizing these compounds as a problem for any product –
so they are not demanding disclosure for certain uses – that’s where the issue
is. Why it’s out of hand

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – so every time you buy flavoring even though it’s been tested
before you would have to test the new flavoring?

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – Have any specific flavoring been flagged as not recommended?  On
the same thing have any flavorings been clear of  potential problems?

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – @ Ray FW butterscotch I think was high in D

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – sweet flavors, buttery flavors seem to be suspect

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – Thanks Simona…   on that note Kathy I do wonder if the sweetner
used may plaw a role in the issue…heat sugar and it crystalizes at certain
temps. Just and example an thought

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – I don’t know Ray – it may be something to explore

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – apparently peach is a bad one

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – Perhaps yes….food for thought….

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – I never did like peach… peachy is not me…;)

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – Not my Frozen Peach!

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – lol grant….sorry. 🙂

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – i don’t know if it’s all peach flavors – but Dr F did mention peach

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – kinda sucks that it is a US company that makes it

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – yes

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – Peach would be an issue if it was moderated with a smoother. So a
very smooth peach flavor might be a higher risk than a fruity peach.

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – good to know kate – thanks!

Zack Carpenter (to All – Entire Audience) – Is THRA Canada a registered Canadian Not for Profit Corp?

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – so smoothner is a problem?

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Thank you very much Ray

John Haste (to All – Entire Audience) – http://thra.ca/

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – We really need to test the flavors and make a
spreadsheet…crucial.  This is going to help us manufacturers know what to
stay away from. This idea was brought up a few weeks ago, and we need to get on
top of this.

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – yup – smoother the worser. it may be made smoother with acetoin –
but diacetyl also. …but I agree with Ray here – it’s important but not the
big focus we’re facing. AP & D are not going to be our end. Avoidable –
time consuming – but we need to fight for the fact that even with those
compounds, eliquid is radically safer than smoking.

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Thanks, I didn’t know that. I agree..the main focus is just
keeping vaping alive and well.

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – MANUFACTURERS…please email me funk.e.joose@gmail.com if you are
interested in pooling together, both funds and various flavors from different
manufacturers.  Lets make a schedule we can afford to maintain and do this!

[Waiting for name] (to All – Entire Audience) – I know Saby from CEV has brought that up too so I know he would be
into that

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – Saby and FC are already doing this.

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – I’ll email Saby to jump in on this.  Thanks Kate

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – the hardest thing is going to be breaking the apathy of Canadians
to get involved and stand up

[Waiting for name] (to All – Entire Audience) – talk to Joel from FC too

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Yup

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – yup yup – alarm clock anyone… 🙂

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – Yes people in Canada are far too passive

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – I don’t think it’s just Canadians, it seems to be a global state.
Not sure why

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – Canadians are kinda famous around the world for being very
passive…

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – We need some pepper in our butts

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – true!lol!

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – True 🙁

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – my pv is always in my hand in public – the best way – no hiding
anymore – ever

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Nope me either!

Cindy (to All – Entire Audience) – how do I get to speak

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – do you have a mike cindy?

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – @ cindy there should be a tab on the left that looks like a mic.
click that to unmute

Cindy (to All – Entire Audience) – yep

John Haste (to All – Entire Audience) – It doesn’t look like you have a Mic attached Cindy..   Can you
call in using the telephone number?

Cindy (to All – Entire Audience) – i am on the phone

John Haste (to All – Entire Audience) – You should be able to talk then…  It’s just a dial-in conference
call…

Ray Yeates (to All – Entire Audience) – I agree…I think the industry as a hole is doing a good job

John Haste (to All – Entire Audience) – Dial:  1-647-497-9376

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – you’re absolutely correct matt

John Haste (to All – Entire Audience) – Access Code:  608-848-573

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Agreed, united is best and will be far more effective

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – We can compliment each other’s efforts without corrupting the
process (which was assumed in the past)

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – Make the most out of both memberships manpower

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – http://www.ecigmedia.com/ecigmedia-casaa-retargeting-vaper-awarenesu/

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – thra needs to move not just online – but we need to reach all
Canadians – media will be most important

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Agreed Kathy

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – double agreed

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – Daniel hit the nail on the head

Andy Prevost (to All – Entire Audience) – Andy Prevost >> andy@worx.me

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – fantastic.

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – THRA – can you create a business card type info thing for vendors
to pass along to their consumers?  Might encourage the non facebook users to
join in

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – legalities of what?

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – It’s legal – but it’s not being regulated into another act right
now. So it’s a grey area

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – The case was actually dismissed. It was a hearing on  the legality
of Health Canada ordering the seizure of product at the border – not a case on
whether nicotine could be used in other products not currently covered by the
food and drug admin.

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Didn’t they make health claims too?

Zack Carpenter (to All – Entire Audience) – Now your saying its a grey area when the website says its legal???

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – With the ZEN case, it doesn’t look at things like that. It’s not
even a full hearing. Just a reading by a judge. It was a judicial application –
and it was denied.

Zack Carpenter (to All – Entire Audience) – Not in Canada!

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – I’d also like to see this information

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – So why hasn’t a single store had their products seized?

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – I really wish canadians had a couple lawyers who advocate 🙁

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – or moe. A lawyer army..

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – The feds are not stupid, if they had to power to kill the industry
it would be DEAD

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – so what do you want us to switch to cindy?

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – can someone ask her that question please?

Zack Carpenter (to All – Entire Audience) – Answer: at the Federal level

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – There is no law AGAINST nicotine. It’s not illegal. It is
controlled under different statutes in different uses and different amounts.
Our use has not been approved. But that doesn’t make it illegal. A prohibitive
law needs to exist before something can be determined illegal. Or a specific
statute forbidding a specific use.

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – we need lobbyists who are government savvy

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Yup we do

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – there needs to be a ruling in the first place for us to dispute in
court, but there isn’t

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – hence the “grey area”

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Nice!

[Waiting for name] (to All – Entire Audience) – comment on the lawyer thing cindy?

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – Ok, how about donation bins at stores across the country to help
fund this?

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – Good idea grant!

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Good idea, donation tins at B&M’s

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Also, you could have an option when you order online to add a bit
to help fund

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – Or online vendors…I’ll put a donation option on my site if we
have a place to stage the money!

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – yup 🙂

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – They’ve been working on it for a few years now and a few companies
are mentioned along with many individuals – it’s being headed by a constutional
lawyer

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – that is the natural health products industry

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – what the hell is that supposed to mean????

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – how about instead of secrets – she just comes out and says what’s
going on

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – 250k?  We have a lot of juice that moves every month across the
country, so why not put $.50 or $1 per bottle towards a lawsuit?

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Good idea.

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – I think 99.9% of people would be fine with that.

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – afk for 2mins

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – thank you someone finally asked the question!

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – back

Grant Hepworth-TMS Distribution (to All – Entire Audience) – My Direction, and people can say what they want, but I want to
circulate a petition on behalf of both the vaping industry and the NHP
industry, to ask for the heads of Health Canada.  They have been in their
position through multiple governments and have grown complacent in their jobs,
and in a lot of cases are in direct conflict of interest by having past
positions with BP, where their positions should have been Medical with no
association with BP, since that is who they are supposed to mandate.

Kate (to All – Entire Audience) – to the bathroom…

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – This is going nowhere…

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – Cindy, if you want to take it to court, to fight a law that hasn’t
been passed, be my guest…this is counter productive on this meeting.

Kathy Martin (to All – Entire Audience) – thank you for having the meeting.  it didn’t quite go in the
direction i thought it would but it was a good discussion

Simona  -Puff on WO (to All – Entire Audience) – Thanks for having this open to the public, I really appreciate it.

Matt Edmonds (to All – Entire Audience) – Thank you all for joining!

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